The Year of Bitcoin DeFi: Coin Bureau's Nic Puckrin on Yield, Regulation, and Staking

In this episode of the Bullish on Bitcoin Show, BOB co-founder Alexei Zamyatin sat down with Nic Puckrin, CEO and co-founder of Coin Bureau, the independent media organization behind the largest crypto-native YouTube channel in the world. Coin Bureau's mission is mass crypto adoption through education, which made Puckrin a natural guest for the question at the heart of this conversation: is this the year Bitcoin DeFi finally takes off? Recorded in 2025 as a Twitter Space, the discussion covered why the timing feels different, who will use Bitcoin DeFi first, how US regulation is shifting, and what it will take for even the most skeptical Bitcoin holders to put their coins to work.

Here's a rundown of the highlights.

Why Now? A Rare Convergence

Alexei opened with numbers. Bitcoin deployed in DeFi started 2024 at around 235,000 BTC and climbed roughly 40% to about 330,000 BTC by the end of the year, with growth accelerating. Even so, only 0.1% to 0.3% of Bitcoin's market cap is used in DeFi, compared with roughly 30% for Ethereum, a 100x gap that he sees as a huge opportunity.

Puckrin pointed to a "rare convergence" of factors: advances in Bitcoin-native DeFi technology, a massive wave of institutional and retail adoption through ETFs, the halving, a potentially lower interest rate environment, and a more favorable regulatory outlook. Institutions and retail investors hold Bitcoin as digital gold, he noted, but they also want to earn yield on it, and Bitcoin whales sitting on years of untouched coins represent a large pool of capital that could generate yield and help secure blockchains.

Why Trustless Yield Matters to Institutions

Alexei asked whether institutionalization pulls Bitcoin toward traditional finance or toward DeFi, Puckrin argued it helps Bitcoin DeFi. Institutions can already earn yield through collateralized lending, but that carries counterparty risk, as the collapses of BlockFi and Genesis showed. In his view, whales and Bitcoin OGs would never trust that model again, and trustless native staking on Bitcoin L2s offers a more appealing alternative.

Alexei added color from BOB's own conversations with ETF issuers and custodians. Early in those talks, issuers back away, saying they can't even launch an Ethereum staking ETF yet because of client and pension fund obligations. Yet minutes later the same people are asking about the latest Bitcoin DeFi debates. His read is that many TradFi professionals are deeply interested in DeFi and are held back mainly by regulatory uncertainty.

A Regulatory Sea Change

On regulation, Puckrin called the shift a "massive sea change." He cited a pro-crypto turn at the SEC even before its new chairman's confirmation, a statement from Commissioner Hester Peirce about fostering ecosystem growth, and a new SEC unit focused on both innovation and enforcement. He noted that the absence of staking from Ethereum ETFs was never a technical limitation, but a result of the previous SEC's stance, and that issuers are now moving to file again.

Alexei welcomed the change, adding that he expects the scrutiny now facing meme coins to push the market back toward fundamentals, where Bitcoin excels. In his view, there is simply no reason Bitcoin should not have DeFi.

Who Will Use Bitcoin DeFi First?

Puckrin outlined the likely user groups in order. First come DeFi-native degens and yield farmers from Ethereum, who will chase better yields. Next, Bitcoin miners, whose rewards shrank after the halving and who may want new ways to put their balance sheets to work. Then long-term Bitcoin holders, who may be wary today but will come around once trustless technology is available. Finally, corporates following Strategy's lead who could treat their Bitcoin like a cash treasury that earns yield.

Can Bitcoin DeFi Rival Ethereum?

Puckrin believes it can, eventually. The key ingredients are the technology that enables fully trustless use, a growing ecosystem, and education. He was candid about where he stands:

"I'm way less bullish on Ethereum as I am on Bitcoin."

He suggested that Ethereum OGs might look for a new home within a year or two, and that Bitcoin is a natural destination: it has the most regulatory clarity as the only asset widely treated as a commodity, and as he put it, "Bitcoin is always going to be there."

Alexei agreed that institutions are comfortable with custodial wrapped Bitcoin because that is how they operate, and he was careful not to criticize those providers, which have done their best with today's technology. But for him, plugging Bitcoin into TradFi is not the goal. He pointed to BitVM as the path to a properly decentralized solution, with testnets arriving and mainnets expected later that year.

Puckrin added an angle that is easy to miss: tokenized versions of Bitcoin living on other chains don't generate demand on the Bitcoin network itself. For long-term sustainability, and for miners, he argued Bitcoin needs more use cases that actually settle on its base layer.

Miners, Staking, and Not Squeezing L2s Too Early

Alexei took on the long-term question of how to keep block rewards sustainable as they shrink. Bitcoin L2s should be synergistic with Bitcoin, he said, not parasitic, but they also shouldn't be treated as a quick way to extract revenue for miners. His analogy:

"You don't start taking money out of a startup on day one."

Bitcoin staking, he explained, is an elegant bridge. Many miners are long Bitcoin and cautious about DeFi, and staking lets them use BTC to secure Bitcoin L2s and other networks. He pointed to Babylon reaching around $6 billion in TVL within weeks as evidence of demand. Puckrin agreed that staking gives miners a chance to earn more, both with their holdings and as businesses, as the 21 million limit approaches and block rewards decline.

Merging Two Worlds: Will Bitcoin Holders Embrace DeFi?

Alexei explained BOB's hybrid approach, which inherits Bitcoin's security while giving Ethereum builders the tools and liquidity they already know, positioning it as a bridge rather than a fight between maximalist camps. He asked Puckrin whether Bitcoin and Ethereum users can really coexist.

Puckrin said the Ethereum side is the easier audience: Ethereum DeFi natives are far more willing to experiment and build, and their liquidity helps grow the ecosystem. Bitcoin OGs will take longer, and their trust comes down to technology, in the spirit of "Don't trust, verify." Once a fully trustless, cryptographically secure path exists, he said, they will feel comfortable.

Alexei questioned the premise of who counts as a "Bitcoin maxi." Many builders of top L1s are former Bitcoiners who left during the block size wars, he noted, and:

"Everybody is a Bitcoiner at heart."

He argued the loudest maximalists, whom he nicknamed the "laser eyes" crowd, are actually a small group with relatively few assets that matter for DeFi. When Ordinals and BRC-20 suddenly let Bitcoin do NFTs and tokens, he said, people returned in droves. He also pointed to very old Bitcoin showing up in Babylon staking, as a sign that people "have tasted blood," and predicted a major sentiment shift within two years.

Predictions: TVL, Sovereigns, and ETFs

Alexei asked for forward-looking calls, Puckrin said it is "totally possible" for Bitcoin DeFi TVL to reach around $25 billion by the end of 2025, helped by rising prices and more comfort with staking, and possibly to double again the year after. He recalled Babylon's CTO predicting that within five years up to 50% of all Bitcoin could be staked, which he described as ambitious but worth shooting for. His wild card was sovereign adoption: a nation state accumulating Bitcoin beyond El Salvador, potentially even a G7 country, which could then also put it to work beyond HODLing.

Alexei's own bold prediction was that within five years, there will be more Bitcoin in DeFi on Bitcoin L2s than in ETFs. He argued that institutions are made up of people managing other people's money, that younger generations are crypto natives, and that banks and institutions will eventually become service providers on top of decentralized systems. Both agreed these are personal views and predictions, not financial advice.

He closed with a challenge for every business and DeFi project listening: if you don't have a Bitcoin strategy yet, now is the time to build one.

Watch or Listen to the Full Episode

This recap covers the main threads, but the full conversation goes deeper on the hybrid L2 approach, the Ordinals-driven culture shift, and where Bitcoin staking is headed. Catch the complete episode of the Bullish on Bitcoin Show with Nic Puckrin on your platform of choice: